Streetlife

I think you trivialise it all. We live in an age of celebrity and lots of people have retreated into fragile coccoons. People are able to have  a trenchant opinion' political or religious, but our social code prohibits polite mention of it.  This has resulted in our councils and parliament being taken over by a political class that eschews all real polemic'  and is just concerned with self-aggrandissment I believe it is forums like this that could provide for a renaisance in political representation.  Gorgeous George and Barack Obama both used social media to upset the political applecart to good effect.

Hi Nicholas G - thanks for that interesting point...food for thought there...

Bollocks NG - some people on this site enjoying being rude/giving cause for offense and argument. They get pleasure in putting others down as usually have a problem with how they feel about themselves. Look at TSczar's response on  someone keeping a check on petrol prices and letting others know of his best find. How can you have' political rennaisance' on sites like this with people who reflect this self aggrandisement in always wanting to be top-dog no matter the logic-just as you accuse our political representatives..

Hi Sylvia - I agree with your above comments - and that's what prompted me to post this thread - as there seems to be a love for 'virtual combat' on these forums - rather than constructive and helpful contributions to the topic in hand....thanks for sharing your thoughts X

I don't really agree with Sylvia.  I had a look at Tczstre's (sp?) post on checking petrol prices and I could only see a reasonably abrupt response in the petrol price thread.  Nothing rude or offensive though.   But Sylvia comes in straight with 'Bollocks NG' which, though it may not rate among the premiership of slang is, still, stronger than Tczstre's in my opinion.

I do think, like Nicholas G, that sites like this - being uniquely local - could form the basis of genuinely local democratic discussion and protest.

Just to add a bit of humour....I read this quote on Facebook...

"Losing an on-line argument?....It's time to correct their grammar...."

 LOL!!!

Sylvia the nihlism you express depresses me. Are you going to have an in depth political or philosophical discussion with your next door neighbour? or a colleage at work? Your boss? Your Landlord?  Your Bankmanager? All of whom may take your opinion and your expression of it as challenging or even insulting.  Ruin your chances of promotion a lease renewal or an extended overdraft..   Not very likely is it?  Do you have any real opinions? Are you brave or stupid enough to air them?

Hitler came to power and was able ]commit his unspeakable crimes because good people were afraid to speak out.  WE are not safe from the state on these forums but it is a way for people to express themselves politically without compromising their personal circumstances.  Of course there are Nerds,Geeks and bigots out there but even these guys should be heard so we can understand what is happening on our street in our times.

Doubt it, once the patriot act is in full swing you won't be able to have much of anything let alone a political debate.

People need to get very pissed off (:

Look at original thread folks it wasnt about expressing your thoughts or good people airing their opposing views it was about the exact subject that I mentioned in my first post. 

 Can anyone else see that NG is doing just what he what he says he abhors?. Also NG I do suggest that you read my post about your comment relating to original thread - you are now mirroring exactly what I have said about some people on this site.and, I expressed a real opinion and was brave/stupid enough to express it.

I stated that your response was inappropriate to the subject matter. I did not call you stupid/ignorant/fearful /nerdish or need to  invoke Hitler and Barack Obama to support my expression!. 

Thanks for the laugh as you now demonstrate what Arguin was talking about to a T.  ARGUIN -you have you thought clearly demonstrated.

Caroline  -im not here to arue with you about the word b'ollcks and its degree of offensiveness. Look again Tczs response, as I have already said, to someone suggesting a sharing of information based on their personal findings and you will see it was a put down. 'Hearsay' means without foundation relating to gossip. That's what we were talking about - inappropriate karate chops' to a fellow Stretlifer in support of others.

You will see , fellow posters, that NG's rant doesnt respond to the original post and, I never commented on whether or not the site is good for expressing genuine political opinion' - I say again, that while you have people who are insulting or argumentative for the SPORT of it - depresses/confuses and thwarts genuine discussion (just has been done here)

Dear Sylvia, Sorry I did not  mean to raise your ire.  I can cope with someone saying my opinion is BOLLOCKS I have no problem with it.  I thought SL  was  posing the question " whether due to ego and the love of arguement  the point of the threads was being lost"  This is, to me. an interesting idea.   One only has to listen to parliamentary exchanges to understand it.  People who enjoy discussion and debate have to accept that others may have contradictory opinions.   Sometimes by force of arguement  opinions are changed.  There is nothing wrong with an opposing view it causes people to revisit their opinion.  If we think of some of the big issues in our history, slavery, colonialism, the welfare state. womens rights sexual freedom whatever.  They all represent turning points which were brought about by campaigning and arguement. A lot of what was said on both sides was inappropriate, misleading . ego driven. dependant on hearsay or just  irrelavent wind-up.  That is how debate is. 

My point was that this type of forum gave people power to express themselves on issues that concerned them. It is also 'safe' in that they can get it off their chest without offending people who could make their life difficult.  As such it is empowering and it is instructive that on any topic so many different opinions exist.  I think this is healthy politically. If you think of repressive regimes this precisely what is prohibited.   I accept that there will always be people who dont value this who see it as a laugh, who prefer to be sarcastic, overly sensitive whatever.  They do not often overturn an interesting thread which may have many strands.   Yours rantingly NG 

I think we're having a good (if slightly random) talk here and that's what it's about here, isn't it?  There are no rules (except the implicit one that it should all be reasonably polite).  I've disagreed with Love Generation forcibly about prostitutiion and I've disagreed with Sylvia here.  There's someone called Michael G (I think) who went on a bullying campaign on a chat about Homeopathy that really annoyed me but, elsewhere, he has said some sensible things.

People, especially more mature people, like on this forum, have thought their opinions through themselves and don't necessarily want to slip into some cosy consensus promoted by modern propaganda. 

I like the openness of this forum.  Through this forum (and other local social avenues), I have met NG and, yes, he is a bit of an opinionated chest-prodder at times but he is also social, sensible and sympathetic.

Thanks Caroline and i do understand reasonable debate and open forum but we will always get the 'repressive regime' as visited by some here - still putting people (not myself) off ( in having their open debate) by belittling others personally instead of just dealing with the topic in hand.

My ire has not been raised - you can name call me till the cows come home. I just dont agree that in arguing or discussing or putting forth our opposing view we need 'irrelevant wind up' and back stabbing. So NG I have a different view to you about this and you will just have to deal with your depression about this fact.

perhaps one should fully understand the meaning of nihilism.

I posted the thread that Tczstre chose to be acerbic about but hey??  This is what a forum is all about.  What I called personal observation, he called "hearsay".  When it comes down to it we can only believe information is given in good faith.  Streetlife is a bloody useful tool to talk to others, swap notes, get info and frankly who gives a f**k if a few people decide to weigh in and score points off others..the teenagers get it right with their "whatever" and we all have the right to disregard the crap!  Pick up and go with the good stuff and deride the haters..

I am reminded of Hesetine's excellent riposte " It's not Brown it's Balls" It is wonderful when someone can come up with a pithy witty (not to be confused with p*ssy sh*tty) way of puncturing pomposity

Isn't it possibly about learning something?
And for that to happen posts are better when thought through and fact based. When it's "just" opinion being post please may it at least be experience based....otherwise we are in the territory of pointless ranting.
Is that pompous enough NG?

It depends on the subject.  If the discussion is fact based,   ie; Do the trains run on time? Then comprehensive 'facts' are needed and arguement about such 'facts' is tedious,  Yes it is! No it is not!  Oh yes it is! Oh no it is not!  It is or not is a fact.   If the discussion is is opinion based ie; Should or could the trains run on time? Then the discussion can range through a number of factors affecting timetables from working hours, turnaround time, investment in permanent way or rolling stock etc

 So I think that the more interesting discusssions are opinion-driven.  Then we come to the point where some opinions are based on narrow evidence or have become too precious to be abandoned.  Others will be based on extensive experience or knowledge.  Both can sound pompous and dogmatic or both.

So in the end having thought this through I find myself in agreement with you Andrew.  Let that be the lesson for today.  Happy Easter Everyone.

Happy Easter everybody! Without any religious connotation-its Good Friday and I feel good. My garden blossoms with multitude of wildflowers and bees and bird song.

I enjopy this forum and the opportunity to meet other people who are stimulating, kind and generous.  I take your advice Brian - and will tryto  ignore pompous pointless ranting.

The only thing is that I do give a 'fig' that some people have the attitude of deriding, without reason, others, as I feel that the increasing insular &aggresive nature of city dwellers is reflected in this bullying.

isn't it strange - I read NG's original response to Arguin' (sic!) as a thoughtful and interesting comment, whilst Sylvia heard it as a rant. But to my 'ear', hers was much more of a rant!

I am not against arguing (or arguin') and I agree that there is a need for much more thoughtful debate (not something modelled by our Government! - look at the absolute fiasco about the Alternative Vote). But I do think there is a difference between people being a bit thoughtful and people just reacting and letting off a lot of steam!

I don't mind people being cross - there is often a lot to be cross about - but I would prefer a bit less bad language... Maybe I am too old, or old fashioned....

Lordy be Nicholas G. We agree! And a happy Easter to us all

Following on from Laura J's post: you make good points Laura...

Perhaps it might help if those in a bad mood/deliberately wanting to execute a few virtual 'karate chops' precede their post by summat like: 'Warning...I feel like having a virtual boxing match to release pent up frustration...here goes....'

Good idea - I feel like executing a few karate chops myself often enough!! It does help to let off steam sometimes....

I always find it's best not to post things when I've just come back from the pub.  I wake up full of misgivings....

Ha ha Caro thanks for the laugh.

Laura J - the rant i refer to is not the first response to the topic - but read when  I am called nihilistic /that I am unable to have an in depth discussion with my next door neighbour/ or a colleage at work? or my boss Your Landlord? Your Bankmanager? /  I cannot manage my finances and I  am unable to air my stupid opinions - having just expressed my stupid opinions! 

the bloke doesnt know me and said this because I disagreed with him about the need for people to be rude and agressive in arguing their point!

I am surprised that you do not see that post, of one put down after another, as a rant.

Anyway as you say we all perceive things differentyl -. at least I know that i can  make false  personal comments about a person  fifteen times in a row and some people wont have a problemwith it. 

Sylvia I apologise for my grammar, I should have stayed in the third person.  Trouble is I am not a nob and so this is not a form of speech that comes naturally.  I should have said  'one does not'  Please do me the favour of transposing the  post beginning 'Sylvia your nihlism,,,' into the third person and you will see it mirrors my letter to you. I meant nothing personal as you say I dont know you I was simply replying to a post which started BOLLOCKS NG.  It  was silly  of me to assume we were standing at a bar together. I was not refering to you in my comments about nerds etc and if you choose to read it this way there is nothing I can do about it  I am still dismayed you cant accept the political value of this sort of social media  and further you seem to have some faith in the current crop of politicians. Be that as it may I wish you a Happy Easter And once again sorry.

OK NG thanks -but how many times do I have to say - maybe the fifth/sixth time, that I DO see the value of this media - but you cannot seem to see past that  there are different ways of expressing yourself..  As I have also said before, I dont take the supposed name calling to heart - I only mentioned it again as an example of a rant, I dont know you, I have no axe to grind with you - as you with me, other than a sparring partner of words. Spring is here and the sun is shining