Streetlife

Wandsworth council does have a tree section - see http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/trees, call 020 8871 6372 between 9am-5pm or email trees@wandsworth.gov.uk

Hi, from what I understand they do no need permission to cut down fruit trees.  The lavender 'tree' is dependent upon how thick the trunk is but most likely would have been ok to take out as well. 

If you love these trees so much why not put some in you own back garden rather than trying to force your neighbors to live with them in their new home...

...and both these trees are now gone anyway....

Hi Simon,

I dont know about whether such policies exist but I feel extremely symapthetic to your concerns. I find it distressing to see how many people are cutting down hedges and tress and replacing gardens with concrete slabs or decking. DJ talks of 'forcing' neighbours as if you are being in some way intolerant or anti social. Arguably they are the anti social ones because by destroying habitat they are contributing to all sorts of long term problems for the rest of us. . The more people concrete over back and front gardens the more they are creating problems . There's the issue of rain water not being able to soak into the ground which creates the conditions for flash flood (i know it doesnt seem very likely at the moment!) but there's also the problem of the loss of habitat for bees (crucial if we actually want to eat in the future), butterflies and birds. Urban gardens are really important for wildlife becuase so much of the countryside is now given over to intensive farming. Anyway I share you sense of loss. Trees are beautiful and concrete slabs with dusbins on are not. It would be great to see people getting involved around here to encourage 'green' gardens again. Do you know of any such group? Id join it!

And I would too, being the proud owner of two newt ponds.

But there is no discussion about gardens and what could be done with them or, more appropriately, how they could be left.  Every now and then, there is a bit of an impulse from 'Springwatch' or suchlike but that is more than balanced out by TV garden makeover idiots who want us to pile concrete in there and make it like an extension of suburbia.  Just recently, I had a mini-moan on these boards about astroturf or whatever they call it.  What is wrong with grass?

But neither do I believe in causing problems for your neighbours.

None of us know what the circumstances are of these new neighbors, there could be many reasons that they cut down the trees.  Simon you talk of bees. Perhaps the new owner is allergic to bee stings or one of their children is. In Australia I own a 5000 tree orchard and can say that even at the best of times there is fruit on the ground thanks to birds and bees feasting on the rotting fruit. This would make it very hard to live around.  My brother is deathly allergic to bee stings so I can imagine if this were the case they would want any trees attracting them out of the area. 

Hedges need constant upkeep and usually cause more problems than the are worth - either being left to grow too high or too wide.  Space in London is not cheep and I for one would prefer more of it rather than the mess of a hedge.

My garden here in London originally had 3 trees in it when I bought my property.  All are gone now thankfully.  One large tree was planted only 3 feet from the foundation and I had to underpin the entire side of the house because of it.  The other two I had to fight with the council to get them to let me take them out.  Both were rotting down the centre. The chestnut had been pollarded to death and looked like an upside down octopus with the branches just hanging onto the rotten trunk.  It wasn't until a very large branch broke away and fell on the neighbor's roof that I was able to get them to see sense.  Even then I was instructed that I would have to replace the trees - that I did, but with mini trees in pots that fit with 'my' ideal garden.  Wandsworth has plenty of lovely parks with loads of trees for the wildlife to flourish. 

My 20 by 20 courtyard garden has more plants in it than most gardens without the 'benefit' of overbearing trees.  Every wall has 3-4 climbers and anyone that has seen it is amazed at the amount of greenery I've managed to fit in so amiably.  And yes Simon I have slate tiled a good portion of it and put in raised bed around the borders as I've a bad back and can't bend down to weed. There is no space for a mower, so no grass unless you want to count the bamboo bed.  I'm retired so I can devote more time to my garden than most yet even I find it a chore so I can understand why some people prefer to reduce their burden - who are we to dictate to them what they do with their home environment.  Why not give your new neighbors a chance perhaps they have a different vision for their back yard then you do. Tend your own back yard I say and leave your neighbors in peace...

@ D.J.

You addressed your comments to Simon when the original poster was 'the green door'. It was Ros C. who wrote of bees and Caroline W. of concrete vs. grass.

I don't think 'the green door' was condemning neighbours so much as grieving for the loss of some beautiful trees and wanting a voice to do so. I wonder, D.J., just what it was about the original post that moved you to write so dismissively and at such length? While I agree that households should be free to have the gardens they want, it seems to me that reducing any space to concrete is a move against nature. Increasingly our natural word is being coralled into smaller and smaller spaces or ones that become overused. The government  shares this contempt for nature (witness its attempt to sell off ancient woodland). The consequence is that we become dissociated from nature, the result of which is that we become alienated from each other and only concerned with our personal well-being.

Well done 'the green door' for speaking out.

Simon, thank you for your link.  I called the WBC tree man for my area today, as you suggested, and had a very helpful chat with him. 

And thank you for the supportive voices above - Ros, Caroline and tourgis - I shall not be put off by DJ.

I don't think that I'm trying to control anyone or fall out with my neighbours.  As tourgis rightly says, I was simply affected by the sheer extent of the culling and wished to find a way to be able to speak up (through the right channels).

Surely, if enough people express concern when they bear witness to healthy trees being chopped down (or placed under threat of it), this can act to shape future policies that affect our environment.

My apologies to Simon I only noted his name at the beginning of Ros C's response.  As for green door her need to 'make a complaint about it either through Wandsworth Council or through my local councilors' makes it evident that she is planning on doing more than making a comment on the loss of the trees on this site.

Also there seems to be more than a little speculation as to why these people removed the trees and in the original post I cannot find any reference to them concreting over their garden except that there is no longer a  single stick of greenery - nothing said about a blade of grass - so why all the moaning about this?

I am not being dismissive of what green door wrote, I just do not feel it is her right to impose her views on her neighbors.  There would not have been any preservation orders on the trees due to the type and size that they were so I guess you can say I am for the rights of her neighbor to take them out.  Were I her I should be glad to have neighbors that are keen to keep their garden tidy rather than complain when they make some changes.

For the majority of the year I live on an island off the coast of Australia where we rely totally on solar power, tank water and wood fuel so I am very in tune with nature and what one must do to live in harmony with it. 

It is nice to have trees in metropolitan areas but it's a luxury for most in their gardens as space is at a premium and trees often outgrow the property over the years.  It seems to me that your comment about people becoming alienated from each other and only concerned with their own personal well-being also describes those who would impose their beliefs/desires upon others who do not agree with them. 

Green door would better suit the nature loving community by volunteering to help cleanup the parks and waterways and seeing to her own back garden - rather than spout off about her new neighbors endeavors.  Perhaps she should try to get to know them and find out why they've made the changes first before condemning them...

Nicely written post, DJ.  

There are lots of organisations to join for people who want to do something about trees and nature eg Wandsworth tree wardens - look at the parks section of the council's website.

I'd be interested in peoples experiences as relate to 2 lots of "tree issues" I have:

1 - there is a leylandii (spelling??) in the neighbours garden, planted by a previous tenant - it is about 8 years old & approaching 30 or 35 feet high, and blocking sunlight to our flat & the one below. the landlord is proving unresponsive to the current tenant's phone calls on our behalf to come & at least SEE the tree - would the council be able to force removal of this as I know leylandii are pretty controversial and possibly even not permitted??

2 - where we live, all flats/houses on the block have gardens backing onto one another. At the end of the gardens down the "long" side of the block, there are enormous ash trees, some in the region of 50 feet high I'm guessing. They are really lovely. The problem is that they have spawned a huge number of "children" trees in various gardens, including some close to my own - and their root systems are vigorous & potentially damaging, and the trees, even though just 5 or 6 years old, are already 15 to 20 feet high & will be shutting out daylight from many flats in the not too distant future.

Again, has anyone else had experiences with this?

Appreciate the Wandsworth Council numbers, but would like to hear of "real life" experiences first before I contact them.

thanks!

Hi there Green Door (& anyone else who may find this of interest)
I don't know where you live or what the surrounding area is like, but the following may
Trees are protected by two pieces of legislation. Conservation areas & Tree Preservation Orders (TPO's).
If you live in a Conservation Area & wish to remove a tree in your garden you are required by law to make a Notification of intended works to your planning authority. The way it currently works at Wandsworth is your Notification is sent to the Planning Dept. where it is processed. Once that has been done it is then sent to the Tree Section where it is allocated to the officer who deals with that area. He will then go out to the site & assess the type of works intended. If the tree is in a back garden & is not visible from anywhere other than the surrounding back gardens it is highly unlikely that there will be any objection raised as the tree will not fulfill the criteria for further protection by way of a TPO. The process has to be completed within a six week window.
Conservation areas do not just apply to front gardens. If a tree is in a back garden that is within the confines of a Conservation area a Notification does have to be sent to the Planners.
The following link should explain any other questions you may have.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/tposguide.pdf

Regards

Dave

To balance this concern out, we bought a house with a paved garden. We are in plans to grass some of it, add a pond for the local frogs (which we find when the garden is wet), plant about 5 fruit trees, and hang abundant bird feeders and bird houses. I would also love to have a bee hive at some point. We have a small back garden that I am determined to fit everything into.

We have watched astroturf becoming a growing craze in our neighbourhood in both front and back gardens. The local primary school has even astroturfed their play area. Our new neighbours cut down their lovely big trees that gave us all some privacy. But what can we say? I am just determined to grow our garden up so that we control it. On the flip side there are neighbours that are ecstatic the big trees came down as they suddenly have a sunny garden. Like some of you, I am also concerned about water run off, and the birds and bees and am determined to do all I can in my own space. 

It's great to hear a story of someone reversing the trend to concrete over the front and back gardens of London.

Ive lived in London all my life and am incredibly saddened by the loss of greenery. Streets which used to look green and were full of sparrows  and moths and even bats are now just dead areas.
DJ is lucky if he can spend most of the year on an island off Australia. For those of us who regard London as our 'habitat', the new sterility is depressing.

I agree with the general concensus that neighbourly relations are important and that we should be respectful of each others choices. However I do think a lot of the current fashion for banishing nature is based on ignorance about just how important even these small patches of ground are for our fellow species (and in the case of bees we do actually depend on them). The more our city is paved over the more it will heat up, the less water can run away and there will be less wildlife.

Maybe whats needed is more information - about why these areas are so important . Maybe we could encourage street competitions like the Britian in Bloom one for the best front gardens. If any one local is interesting in starting/joining  a group to try and encourage'greener' gardens, I'd be interested in participating!

Firstly, Andy, I don't have any specific experience with what you recount as the trees I referred to in my original post were very small and not blocking light/sun or doing any damage to other trees/buildings as the trees you are describing seem to be doing.  But I do encourage you to call up the tree man at WBC as he was helpful and easy to talk to.  He might have some suggestions.  I think there a couple of different numbers listed on the web site (above) depending on where you live.

Thank you for all the other suggestions by Jenny and Dave and good luck with your garden Michal - it does sound lovely!

DJ, at risk of seeming dismissive, I am not going to comment directly on what you bring up in your post as I am not interested in being drawn into your dialogue.  It was impossible to explain, in a short post, the specifics of the situation I described above, so I will only reiterate (to reassure you) that I am not a trouble maker, militant, argumentative, entrenched in my ideas etc.  If there is good reason to do something then I am always willing to find consensus - you are most definitely barking up the wrong tree :-) in your impressions of me.  If I do "make complaint" then it will not be to individuals (such as my new neighbours) but to official bodies with the intent of using this experience to shine a light on what policies are actually in place. 

And for the benefit of others, up until now, I haven't been able to plant a tree in my garden as one of the trees and the hedge that were cut down, hung over into my garden and it would have been silly to do so.  For many years they have been very much a part of my garden and all co-existed well (hence the sense of loss).  On the weekend I plan to visit the garden centre and plant something on my side. 

Any suggestions for a fast growing small trees and screening scrubs?

Hi GreenDoor, I have a lovely ceanothus which blooms a lovely purple-blue at this time of year, and is a strong growing shrub; I have to cut it back a lot each year to suit my small garden as it grows so well - I would recommend one with darker leaves as the flowers look more dramatic against that colour, but you also get ones with paler green or variegated leaves.

I successfully grew a new one from a cutting last year about this time (for another Streetlifer) so you'd be welcome to get a cutting - I'm having the hedge cut back tomorrow! Send me a private message if you'd like some cuttings ...

What a good idea Tracey.  I love Ceonothus and have one climbing over my garden shed from the garden on the other side.  Should learn how to take a cutting myself!

Shrubs, I must confess are not my area of expertise & the reference book i usually use is buried in a storage container.it is the - Gardeniing which? Guide to successful shrubs. I've just had a look on Amazon & you should be able to pick up a 2nd hand copy for under 3 quid.
Tree wise however I have a soft spot for Hawthorns & Laburnums. Two I'd suggest...

Hawthorn - Crataegus monogyna 'stricta' which is a very upright growing tree. Very good for small gardens.The berries are good for wild life,they produce white flowers & provide a reasonable Autumn colour.

Laburnum - Laburnum x watereri vossii Nice trees with beautiful bright yellow pendulus flowers (this is the best for flowers). However be aware that the trees are poisonous. But that said I grew up with two, one in the back garden & one in the front from the age of about 2 to 10 years old without managing to poison myself! I used to climb them a lot too & to be honest was probably more at risk of breaking my neck than poisoning myself :-). If you google these trees there's quite a bit of debate on them. I guess it depends on whether you are a member of our increasingly expanding "bubble wrapped" society!!

Not sure where you are but if you are interested in either of these trees take a walk into Wandsworth Cemetry on Magdalen Road. Walk into the cemetery via the main entrance (where the lodge is), follow the road along to the first chapel on the left. Just past the chapel is the ladies toilets, next to them you will see a Crataegus monogyna 'stricta'. From there if you follow the road along to the crossroads, on the left, at the junction, you will see a Laburnum watereri vossii
At least you will have an idea of what they look like. They were planted two years ago ish!

Or you could go for a Rowan/Mountain Ash - Sorbus aucuparia, a commonly planted tree. Good for white flowers, native to the UK (as is the Thorn), they usually produce lots of red berries which the birds are rather fond of & generally produce great autumn colour. There are other varieties available with different colour berries, however the birds arn't so keen on them. From memory Sorbus 'Joseph Rock' is one, it produces white berries.

Alternatively, if you don't want to go down the ornamental tree route (or should that be root!!) you could consider fruit trees & reap the benefits of enjoying your trees & also the fruits they produce!

As an afterthought... Shrub wise, they don't grow huge but get yourself some Blueberry bushes. Best kept in pots as they prefer acidic soil (use ericacious compost if you transplant them at all) they look nice when in flower & give rather nice autumn colours & finally, the obvious one, you get great fruit off them!

I hope this is of some assistance

Oh yes... & finally... this may be a statement of the blatantly obvious, but don't plant them too close to the house! Wandsworth has some quite large areas of clay sub soils, don't want you to nurture your trees & have your house fall apart around you!

As you've asked for suggestions I can recommend Magnolia grandiflora as either a tree or shrub (it depends on the pruning).  Your have lovely large leaves year round.  Dark waxy green on one side and velvety russet on the other.  The flowers are huge off white blooms and it likes a sunny position and clay in the soil doesn't seem a problem.  I've seen them planted along walls at several stately homes and there is a lovely example alongside the victorian mansion house on the corner of Elsynge and Spencer Rds. 

Ceonothus 'Dark Star' is a very pretty shrub.  As Ceonothus can be such a fast growing shrub I have seen them pruned as trees.  Again I did see one pruned as such and it was glorious as the crown was a mass of blue bracts draping downward.  Unfortunately the new owners took it out of their front garden as it proved too much work for them I guess.  (See I too can grieve over these things)

Fig trees are always nice as are Gingko/Maidenhair trees (something a bit more exotic)  Should you decide on fruit trees remember you'll need more than one if you want decent fruit unless you buy one of the multi grafted varieties. Tulip trees & Chinese wingnut trees are lovely as well if you want something not so common.  Have fun deciding...

@ DivineMrsM and Green Door - I just stuck a few cuttings in good rich soil in a plastic pot & kept them well watered but not soggy - they need to have a lot of soil, & not be near the pot edge - that's all I did!

According to books & online articles it's hard & I did it at the wrong time of year - but as I had no idea I was "doing it wrong" or that it was hard, it seemed to work just fine :-)

i'm a bit late to this party - sorry - just thought i'd point out that when i felled a plum tree in my garden and a mighty buddleia it was because both were riddled with fungus.  maybe what looked like healthy trees weren't?  and they've got to wait til whatever it is dies/reduces in virulance before replanting?   i hope to put trees in again sometime soon, have waited 3 years for the ground to clear, tho' obviously i won't put in the same kind.  am thinking of a silver birch and a camellia ... magnolia grandiflora is utterly fab, just a bit big scale for my garden.  

Don't bother wasting any time trying to work out what the policy is on trees with Wandsworth Council.  

Conservation Area status means bugger all to Wandsworth Council.  It affords you, your property and your trees no protection what so ever. 

Two years ago a resident in West Hill Road Conservation Area chopped down 12 mature trees in his front garden without permission.  WBC took no action.  2 years later this resident has been awarded planning permission to demolish his bungalow and to build two 4 storey terraces houses on the same small plot of land.  This is the Wandsworth way.

Cllr Steffi Sutters who sits on the planning applications committee is a director of her husbands architects practice.  Her and her husband bought a property in Granard Avenue last year which had a beautiful flowering magnolia in the front garden.  There were over 65 well reasoned, well argued planning objections to her greedy application, All of them made mention of the magnificent magnolia which heralded the seasons.  The development plans submitted with this councillor's application all stated 'retention of the magnolia'.  The tree had been rated highly by the Tree Officer and was due a Tree Preservation Order but before it could be granted it was cut down.  A week later the PAC granted Steffi Sutters her planning permission.   This is the way of Wandsworth.

The owner of H.L. Austin's garage on West Hill Road applied for planning permission to remove a very mature yew tree which was a feature of the rear of my house and his.  He did not do me the courtesy of discussing it with me his neighbour.  While I was away at Christmas his operatives did not seek my permission but trespassed in my garden to remove the tree.  I returned to find our home exposed because of the missing tree which was the height of my house.  The Council said he'd applied for permission and if the planning department doesn't respond in 8 weeks he could legally remove it.  This was a huge, mature yew tree, probably over a hundred years old.  Gone without an inspection from the planning department or the Tree department.  This is the way of Wandsworth

@ Green Door - I like Dave M's suggestions. Personally I like the idea of native trees/shrubs where possible because they support considerably more invertebrate life than introduced species, so Hawthorn and Rowan are both good ideas. If you can get one you might be interested in the Service Tree (Sorbus domestica) which has a long interesting history as well as being an attractive tree. Also consider the European Cornel (Cornus mas), Dogwood (Cornus sanguinea) and Crab Apple (Malus sylvestris)  As far as introduced trees go, you might consider planting Buddleia if you don't mind keeping it pruned and Pyracantha. Happy planting!

@ Sarah R. - I'm so sorry to hear that you lost your yew and I understand how bitter you feel. It is unfortunate that local government is so mired in bureaucracy that it cannot act to help save trees. I hear what other posters say about the need to remove diseased and dangerous trees but there needs to be dialogue first.

@ Ros C. - I am sadly short of time but I would certainly be interested in talking to you and others about a 'green' project in Wandsworth. There are already a number of national schemes that have a presence in Wandsworth and perhaps a start might be to see what's out there already. My particular area of interest is in wild plants.

Two things:  DJ, is magnolia grandiflora the deciduous or evergreen magnolia?  I planted an evergreen one which should have lovely camellia type blooms but is refusing to do anything spectacular!

In reference to Sarah R's post, it seems there are 'privileges' to being on the planning committee.  A friend of mine works on it and assures me there is no such thing (he says no-one's ever approached him with a suitcase full of used fivers!) and is a thoroughly decent person but it seems there is nepotism at work.  Isn't there anything we can do?