Streetlife

Not all neighbours are like that.  Mabe yours don't like you.

I know it varies from ward to ward, street to street. Some manors-the houses are rented by private tenants and they just keep them selves to themselves-moving on regularly. My road-neighbours are a friendly bunch who all help each other out. It just depends.

It's hard work winning trust. It's not helped by the fact that people are so busy with their own lives that many hardly have time to pass the time of day with their neighbours. Please keep trying; the old charm offensive will win out, I think!

True, it could be that we are new to the area so not known properly. As for not liking people you have to give people a chance 1st. We are getting there though. All the bad stuff we read about or see on tv doesn't help I think.

People are not as neighbourly in Barking as they used to be.I really do think that it depends on the area that you live in,or what part of the country etc. As I have said before on this forum,my neighbours are Immigrants,they dont speak English,one side do but pretend not to.From the very first day that they moved in,when my husband said "Hello,are you settling in ok?"they blanked him,and if looks could kill.I am unfortunate to have immigrant neighbours who are not friendly.I am sure there are lots of other who are.

I have noticed that in different areas people tend to react in a variety of ways to people outside their normal group of friends. In villages people will say hello to a stranger as they pass on the street, but in London if someones comes toward you there is a feeling that something is about to happen like getting mugged.
I have also noticed that when a football crowd walks along the road the general public will stay well clear of them, sometimes crossing the road to avoid them, yet the same football supporter might be seen the following day fishing along a river bank and will be very aproachable.

I think that the neighbourly spirit probably died along with most of my parents generation. Back in the early fifties they moved onto a newly built estate with lots of others who still lived in the same properties some thirty years later. I have probably, many others moved over ten times in the same period.

The death of the spirit probably coincided with this mobility. But it was also the death knell of respect,manners tolerance and integration.

People are more wary of each other and are not as trusting and open but there are still many decent people around but it takes more effort and time to get to know them and bring down those invisible walls.
It is going to be harder and in most cases impossible with those privately letting the house they live in. They are not likely to be on long leases and probably don't view the house as a permanent home. That's where the neighbourly spirit will diminish as we see more of these appearing but then again there is always gonna be a minority of people who just don't want to know!

The biggest shame here is that a lot of elderly people stay in their homes, where once they would come out to socialise but now they don't like to.

On Thames View you need to get on a bus to reach decent shops if you don't drive and that is an experience on its own.  You are lucky if there is another English person on the bus or even someone else speaking English.  They are all packed on there with their phones to their ears speaking in dozens of languages.  It can be very intimidating.

There is a community still there but they need prising out of their houses and showing that although the area isn't as it was, it is still reasonably safe to come out, although we have nowhere people can meet up socially during the day time if they are lonely.

Isn't immigration wonderful; if only our Government had to live like we do they wouldn't be embracing it quite so much.

Pam I actually suggested that in my letter to the post.I read that the Hope Pub Barking was going to be turned into a place of prayer for Muslims.I said that there are people who could use the premises as a Social Hall.There are plenty of people over 40 years of age who are lonely and would love to meet up with others.Over 40 is an age where the kids have grown up,when that happens people can become isolated.Mum's with children have their coffee mornings etc,but there is nothing for over 40's in the Barking area.The pub could be used for the age group of between 40 and 65 or older if liked.Oh and I dont mean playing bingo etc lol.Just somewhere people can meet up for coffee's and a chat.My letter did not get published.I think that we have enough venue's where Muslims meet up,but nothing for the British people who are not Muslims.

We are bombarded every day on the news, soap operas and documentaries with stories and images that seem to tell us the world is full of strange and dangerous people - it's not really any surprise that we have all become nervous of strangers. However, I don't think things are as bad as people make out (nor were they as good as people imagine they were in the past).

I think we should all make an effort to smile and either say hello or at least nod to someone in the street at least once a day. At first people might look at you as if you are crazy or after something, but if you keep it up people start responding - I have both done it and had it done to me and it really does make you feel better and puts you in a good mood.

As for those who think the problem is immigration or that other people don't speak English, all I can say is that is absolute nonesense. In my experience, people who are new to the area, or even the country, really appreciate a smile and acknowledgement and tend to respond positively. A smile is universal and does not need someone to speak English to be able to understand, and anyway nearly everyone I have ever met (and not just in the UK but throughout the world) understands "hello".

Try it - you will be pleasantly surprised by the results.

Isn't it strange that as an indigenous society we are generally perceived and accept ourselves as being reserved and quiet.

Yet on a daily basis Streetlife is full on genuine well made comments on issues that have, in varying degrees, relevance to us all. There aren't many hours that go by without a conversation.

A social commentator once said that living in a city is one of the loneliest places to live. We are to busy, in to much of a hurry and as previously said to wary of others.

Unfortunately the wariness is probably justified, added  to the fact the the population is far more mobile than in the past, the different cultures, for whatever reason do not seem to want to integrate and the fact that people  more aware of what they believe to be unfairness it will take a lot of effort and good examples set to change things.

As I am now a grumpy old cynical b*****d I often wonder if things will ever change for the better, but then I think of my duty to my grandchildren and realise that they must and I have an obligation to them to help to achieve these changes !

In response to Derry, this is all about money, I think. If a community group (be they Muslims or anything else) can raise the money to rent/lease/pay the mortgage on a building, then it's viable. If you've got a groupo looking for a premises, there's something to aim for, but without a group you're looking to attract people to a venue and you're going to have to make at least enough money to cover your costs.

If you think theses costs should be paid out of taxpayer money (in all or part), I think you may be disappointed, but you'll still need to establish a group (identified individuals, not just people over 40).

This is true Colin N...but if the council want a community and as they keep telling us that we in Barking and Dagenham are a happy community,then perhaps the council can dig a little deeper into their pockets and pay for the Venue,instead of paying for things like plastic bins for bottles and glasses that we no longer need,or play area's all over the Gasgoigne estate that children do not use.Ahhh I wont hold my breath  ; )

In response to Carl B,

We did smile at our Neighbour's they turned away lol.I want more than a smile Carl..I want to be able to hold a conversation,have a good old chin wag.Mention the word chin wag these day's in barking half of the population would not know what that means.Considering the majority of people in Barking are immigrants it really is difficult.I have actually tried to be sociable only to be either blanked or actually been given a dirty look.I often find the most friendly people in the town centre are the elderly.These people are from the old school of friendly.They are always willing to pass a comment,or have a quick chat.The only trouble is that there are not that many who will go into town,they are to scared  Hey but do you know what they say to me Carl? "Ooooo it makes a nice change for somebody to chat with,we dont get that anymore,not like years ago" HOPE YOUR READING THIS BARKING AND DAGENHAM COUNCIL" so much for your community.

Derry S

Don't get carried away you'll only start talking about spotted dick for afters or writing on the blackboard at school, trying to find somewhere to play hop-scotch which was no where near a manhole cover, the little character on Robinson's Marmalade............ Then you'll be in trouble.

And Colin why not an over 40's club ? Club 18-30 was a successful tour company

Let's assume that they do want a community as they say. And I'm not saying every spending decision they make is right, but we know that money is tight.

The play areas are because they want children to be active but also not expend their energy breaking things deliberately. If they're not there, people will say there are no play areas for children, but once you have put them in, the money's spent.

Same with waste and recycling. They're trying to save money but also do what residents want and so (they hope)  will co-operate with. But if you introduce a new system  the bins/bags/whatever from the old system go to waste. It's just one of those things.It's a bit like getting a new computer. You don't really want to fget rid of the old one, buyt it's slow and plays up, and in the long run it's better to get a new one, but the old one is still wasted.

Have you suggested your idea of an over 40s meet up group to the council? Perhaps they may be able to help/advise on how to find out if there's enough interest. They might put something in 'The News', say. If you can get a group going, you might perhaps be able to get funding. I think the council's community halls still exist, and I think they're fairly cheap. Maybe your group could use one of them?

Colin have you seen the way that the unbreakable and safe play areas are treated on the Gasgoine and its not by the children for whom they are intended.

Ken: Palygrounds - No I haven't. It makes me sad to think that people should wilfully damage these things and I don't know what to do about it. I don't think blaming the council for trying and failing is productive.

Ken: Over 40s club - I'm not saying it should be ruled out, but (I don't think) you go about starting a  social club like that by getting a venue and then trying to get people to come to the club. You have to prove (or be confident) that there is demand. If the council were to acquire the rights to The Hope and use it as a venue for an over 40s club and it sank like a stone, people would rightly criticise the council for wasting money.

Most clubs focus around a specific activity - chatting happens naturally when people are together for an activity, but as an actual activity itself I'm not sure it will attract that many people, but I will be happy to be proved wrong.

We have very little contact with our neighbours - occasional hellos with some, but that is all it has been for 5 years!  And it has not been just Barking and Dagenham - everywhere else I have lived in London has pretty much been the same.

Cultures and backgrounds are so diverse in London these days - it is highly likely that you have absolutely nothing in common with anyone who lives in your entire street, or teh next 5 streets (know that is our case - in many cases we cannot even speak the same language) - so neighbourly contact is limited!

However - I am sure there are people in the Barking area that do share common interests to me - and I am sure there are other people with common interests with the neighbours I have nothing in common with! 

But in these modern times when everyone has a silo mentality - how do you pull people together to create a greater community spirit??

I guess an internet site like this!?

Colin N - you said "Most clubs focus around a specific activity - chatting happens naturally when people are together for an activity"

If you are the Colin I think you are - have you thought about using your current contacts to pull together a Barking Cycle Club, however informal for a Sunday morning ride?  I know that would be something I would be interested in!

If you are not the Colin I think you are - you probably have no idea what I am talking about!

I am (apparently) the Colin you think I am, and now I am intrigued. I put what rides and events I know about on www.stibasa.org.uk, but there's not much by way of rides to/from Barking. Havering CTC has rides from Upminster most/every Sunday - two rides one easier one harder. That's just a short hop on the c2c train. I guess most people want ro ride in the countryside, and that involves going either through LB Redbridge or LB Havering, so joining up with rides there is a possiblity.

This post is way of message so I'd better stop.

It is getting somewhat off topic - I shall send you a private message :D

Not blaming the  council for the behaviour of yobs. Its more of a sad reflection and not a recent decline in the community spirit. Those responsible not give a s**t and those that do care, dare not take any steps to challenge the behaviour quite understandably 

I was at the Gascoigne Estate today helping out with a children's bike ride. The children were all pretty polite and well-behaved - some even charming. I saw children using the play areas too. I know this is just a snapshot, but it shows that it isn't all bad.

@Pam D: "Isn't immigration wonderful?" [said sarcastically]

"a lot of elderly people stay in their homes, where once they would come out to socialise but now they don't like to.". If that is true, it is indeed very sad. Perception of safety is in some ways harder than actual safety to achieve.

"On Thames View you need to get on a bus to reach decent shops"

Again, sad, but what has it got to do with immigration?

"You are lucky if there is another English person on the bus or even someone else speaking English.  They are all packed on there with their phones to their ears speaking in dozens of languages.  It can be very intimidating."

Not really sure why it's *very intimidating*, though I understand what you mean by the feeling that you are the only English person/speaker present. It's like being abroad, except you're at home.

"There is a community still there but they need prising out of their houses and showing that although the area isn't as it was, it is still reasonably safe to come out".

I don't know how safe it actually is, but I suspect it's safer than people think it is. I think one of the main barriers to communities functioning is language and I think it would be a great help if more people could speak English. I'm not talking about forcing them, just encouraging them.

"we have nowhere people can meet up socially during the day time". Again, what has that got to do with immigration?