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Old pubs of Ipswich

Can anyone really believe so many old pubs in Ipswich have gone ? 

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James M
A lot of them have been gone a long time! 
That's progress. It's hard not to feel nostalgic for the loss of pubs, but the reality is that on the whole, they no longer provide the service for which they were originally intended. You can't force people to get off their backsides and pop down the local for a game of darts and a pint, when they can say at home, drink cheap booze and play with their iPads!
There are a few bucking the trend by providing a bit of diversity, but in this day and age, who can afford to eat out every night of the week? And who can afford to run a business that only attracts customers on Friday, Saturday evening or Sunday lunchtime?
We can only hope that once the supermarkets have bought them all, they manage to retain some of the fabric so we can be reminded of the good old days.
James M
I suppose it helps to think what function did pubs fulfil?

Before the 60s, they were social clubs, where men could talk with other men in a convivial atmosphere and not have to "mind their language because of the ladies".  Most pubs were "spit and sawdust"

In the 60s and 70s, pubs startied to change function. Some remained "spit n dawdust" - many started to appeal to young people, some to older married people.  The older pubs were usually in established residential or rural areas,   But basically a way to exchange gossip and have a conversation with friends.

As the 70s and 80s wore on, the young pubs became "clubs" and "discos", and were mostly in town centres.  The pubs for older folk gentrified and became gastro-pubs and restaurants.
Then came cheap supermarket beer, mobile phones, huge TVs, and a smoking ban.  People keep up with gossip by text now, they don't need a regular haunt to find out the latest.  Beer is cheaper at home, by a long way usually (£3-£4 a pint in the pub - £1 a can in the supermarket).  Nobody needs to go to the pub to watch the game on the big csreen.  Most TVs at home are giant, with cheap beer, cheap food and no fights.

Shame, but you're right.  They don't serve a function any more.
Andy A inactive
All this talking of pubs reminds me, I need to pop along to my local "The Tesco Copdock " to get some drinks. (just to confirm Suffolk boys comment about tesco pubs  theres a picture too) They do a good range of food stuff etc there as well, so I will stock up on the grub too. Cheers.....
Michael H
Interesting points made about the pub closers but i strongly agree we must try and stop the rot of closer.The pubs are still very much part of our social life and a much needed meeting place for many groups IE darts clubs/football teams/quiz nights etc.It is true to say that you can buy drinks at the supermarkets cheaper but who wants to sit at home on your own having a beer i know where i would rather be out socialising with my mates not talking to them on laptops.spare a thought for these landlords who are trying to ride the tide until things improve and remember its the goverment taxes on beer thats effecting the beer trade as much as anything
As a beer lover, pub lover, fully paid up member of CAMRA, hater of the beer escalator, conservative (small 'c'!) and as convivial as the next man, I'm speaking as the devil's advocate here, but I'm sorry Michael H, I can't agree! Clearly The Pub is not The Hub, nor very much part of our social life, otherwise they wouldn't be shutting.
My wife and I were really annoyed when we discovered our favourite pub was closed after a 3 mile country walk. We used to go there at least - ooh, three times a year!
I wish there was a simple answer, but I'm afraid dragging out the inevitable will only force more publicans into debt and ultimately the buildings being sold for residential or to supermarkets.
Michael H
Suffolk boy you very much surprise me with your comments i to am involved with camra and the suffolk pub history group if as you say you used your local pub 3 times in a year its no wonder that pubs are closing .It is quite clear to me that you are wasting your money being in camra as all the members have totally different views to the pubs than you have and we regualary go on walk arounds in different areas and support whole hearteadly the survial of the local pubs.As for the inevitable in the case of the emperor in ipswich its a trading pub that tescos want to convert not as you put it a closed bankrupt pub
I agree Michael. The Emperor was part of Punch's core estate and they had no intention of selling it until Tesco made an offer they could't refuse. Over the summer it was managed by a holding company who it has to be said were deliberately running it down. Despite this, as a community we have held onto it, and thankfully now have a good landlady managing it and building it back up again. While the pub industry in the main is going through a tough time - as are most businesses, it is too easy for Pubcos and Supermarkets to use the argument of a failing industry as an excuse to exploit pubs for development.
S F inactive
We need more pubs like the Dove and the Fat Cat - proof that pubs can survive without having to resort to becoming a gastro pub.  Anyone thinking of going into the publican trade should go and have a beer in these pubs and get a few tips from the publicans.  I was in the Dove last night and yet again, the place was heaving, not bad for a Monday night!  They seem to have a winning formula - i.e. decent real ale and cosy atmosphere.  Having drunk in the Dove since 1978, I've seen a few changes over the years with landlords coming and going, but the current proprietors seem to have got it just right.  Its a shame there isn't an equivalent of the Dove up near Norwich Road end of town, but then, would it get used? People come from far and wide to use the Dove so the landlady of the Emperor Inn should get herself down to the Dove or Fat Cat to get a few ideas?  Start by brewing decent beer!
Agreed! Ady and Karen do a great job at the Dove. Pat (also landlady of Golden Hind) is well aware of this, and knows how to care for beer, so the potential is there.
S F inactive
Adi and Karen work bloody hard at it too, which is the reason why it has worked for them, real hard grafters they are as well.  I hope Pat has the stamina for it, and also hope she gets the support from the punters, she'll need both to make it work :)
Michael H
Ady and karen certainly do run a good pub at the dove and he also runs a pub history group there in association with camra next meeting being the 11th march at 8pm if anyones interested .Ady and Karen really make everyone welcome lets hope his success and hard work continues for along time yet.No one wants to see any pubs or any business fail in these difficult times
Peter P
I do wonder if these holding companies buy the pubs for the location and the land rather than as a pub. It seems they may make more profit by selling this local land rather than provide a local community service as a pub. It really is up to all of us to use the pub more often, a good pint of beer, a chat with others,a meal if possible, beats sitting at home with a can,not getting to know neighbours or local people and being more isolated. Just my thoughts though.The emperor used to be busy with broomhill pool being open so families had a swim then a pint. Pity most places like the pool closure result in local shops,pubs being closed as well.
Michael H
Peter i think your right but them opening another supermarket in that parade of shops is bound to have a adverse effect on the trade of the other shops.But do they care the simple answer is no its all about profits for the shareholders of tescos
Toby P.
Have you guys ever thought that it might have been the onset of PUB GRUB that actually brought on the demise of pubs. My youth was spent in the 1950's and 1960's when pub grub was unheard of, and I agree, the back bone of pubs was the good old spit & sawdust bars. Afraid they wouldn't go down to well with to-days pub restaurants.
James M
I think culture has changed as well.  Men are more family-orientated than they were 50 years ago.  Years ago a man came home from work, clouted the kids round the ear for annoying him, moaned at the wife for not having dinner ready, then burgered off to the pub to get some peace.  Life was harder, and people were less inclined to spending time with the family.

I think the rise of food was because pubs wanted to cater more for families, or at least couples.  ANd as soon as you equip a kitchen and pay a chef, the food becomes more important than the drink - you make more money from it.  So drunks swearing disturb the diners, smoking disturbs the diners.  You need proper tables and booths for family dining, so there's less standing room, pubs get emptier and less acommodating unless you're eating.

20 years later, pubs are restaurants.
Michael H
I think what your saying james has alot of truth in it .The problem with pubs now is without food and the assiciated profit from it pubs cannot survive on just beer sales ie 50p profit from selling a pint.You have to sell a hell of alot of beer to pay the overheads some do but there are less now  then ever before
I'm afraid Michael H, you've misunderstood the role of the devil's advocate, and I'm sorry you didn't get the irony.  Nor do I understand where you got the idea that The Emperor is a "closed bankrupt pub", though it certainly looks it, and probably will be.  Just because the hated Tescos wanted to buy it, isn't a good enough reason not to let it fade away.  Clearly the community didn't want it.
The Dove (and the Fat Cat, and the Tap, and one or two others) is an exception to the rule, where the landlord's captured a diminishing market. The vast majority of the others have had their day.  The world has moved on and they have to accept that the population at large has found other ways of entertaining themselves.
As for CAMRA, I joined in 1974 because even at that tender age I appreciated the difference between decent cask ale and Watneys Red and the like, and wanted to help promote and encourage it. I like to think that my subs over the years have gone some way to help achieve that and in the process made The Dove et al a success. CAMRA's objectives have become somewhat blurred,  and many people now see it as a Campaign to Keep All Failing Pubs Open, rather than the Campaign for Real Ale. 
80 years ago, there were probably people who wanted to campaign for pubs to keep their stables open in case the odd customer turned up on a horse, but they were mostly flattened (the stables) and turned into carparks.  The horses have gone, the cars have gone, and now the people have gone.  It's progress.  It's what happens.
Michael H
Suffolk boy i do agree with some of your points you have made.But still stand by the fact that alot of the pubs are very much part of our community go on to camras website and see how many small villages around suffolk no longer have any pubs at all.This results to the fact that the only time villagers get together is meeting at the local shop ( If they have one ) or functions at there village halls.The point i was making about the Emperor why close a viable pub to make way for a supermarket selling yet more cheap booze and give unfair competion to the shops already trading.Yes i suppose you could call it progress but i think we are moving in the wrong direction.I was talking to the landlord of the angel woodbridge this week and he told me he employs 11 part time staff just goes to show that the pubs are putting work back into the community even in these difficult times good for him

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